Why do people like Griffith? (Berserk) / Thoughts on Griffith

MasterCrash7 years ago12

I like Griffith, he's an amazing character, one that makes you fall in love with even though you kinda now he's going to end up being an asshole.
It doesn't justify his actions, nothing will, he does one of the worst things I ever see a character do in any work of fiction. But that doesn't take the fact that he is an incredibly interesting and fascinating character. Horrible, for sure, but fascinating nonetheless.

rcc4337 years ago2
@MasterCrash
Firstly Thanks for respodning! Tbh I was unsure whether or not I would get any response here but luckily I have so thank you!
I can see where your coming from, Griffith is an unique character in the sense that there really is none like him, but what I think is a hard pill to swallow is the motives behind the way he acts.
Like there isn't a shred of humanity in him, like he has trancsended the realm of mortals, like others were to blame for his initial failure(before he became a God). My biggest gripe with Griffith might not be Griffith himself but rather his actions. Imo Guts did nothing wrong when he left the band of the hawks yet it feels like Griffith is punishing him. Guts went back to save him from the noble, and what he gets in return is basically hell. What I'm having a hard time understanding are the people claiming that "Griffith did nothing wrong". Though Griffith might not be "Evil", because that is a human concept, his actions are unforgivably evil and as I see it Evil actions are definitely wrong.

Removed7 years ago5

There's the aspect of willing sacrifice, everyone was already putting their lives on the line for him, every battle could mean their deaths, and they only did so to make Griffith's dream a reality, how could you blame him for sacrificing their lives when he'd been doing so for the entire series and you never blamed him then?
How could you blame him for doing something to people who'd voluntarily let it be done to them over and over?

There's also the "higher man" stuff going on
Watch on YouTube
something that raises him above others, his dream has such power people are willing to sacrifice themselves for it, his vision transcends "the herd".

He's also shown to really care about people, he sold his body to prevent more death, but he can't stop his dream, he can't stop the death, it's grander than even himself, he needs to see this through.

The moment Griffith really went too far for most of the people still supporting him up to that point is Casca's rape, there are some who say "she enjoyed it" which is probably due to (a combination of) young age, not paying that much attention/thought to things, and it generally being pretty hard to change you opinion on something so completely (so fast), the last one being a pretty common reason why people still like him among the people that don't think "Casca enjoyed it".

Casca's rape is also an incredibly emotional decision at a moment in Griffith's life where everything was fucked, he didn't decide to do it in a vacuum, circumstance gave rise to it, everything he ever wanted was taken from him, his character was laid bare, something he'd had a hard time coming to terms with, he had to truly commit and admit to being a "higher man".
He was faced with his own duality; finally respecting Guts for going his own way for his own dream, but losing him in the process (which needed to happen, if he didn't leave Griffith could never respect him, but if he left he'd be gone, Griffith could only try to live inbetween, live a contradiction), he needed to proof his resolve to also leave Guts, as Guts left him, for his dream. But he also wanted revenge for Guts leaving him.
He was a total mess with contradicting feelings.

(Also, no, you're not gonna become anything when your body is crippled, your skin looks like bacon, and your tongue's cut out.
It was basically Sophie's choice "sacrifice" or "make all the sacrifices you have already commited to, who gave themselves up for you, and those who oposed you and lost, mean nothing")

Removed7 years ago2

As a thought experiment let's take Lelouch, let's say at the literal end of season 2 he had a choice "send my sister to hell" or "fail completely at what I've been trying to do".

And after sending his sister to hell he rapes C.C. in rage for cursing him with this power, for putting him in this situation, then he proceeds to take the throne and rules justly and the world was never better.

Mangetsuki3 years ago1
Rapes C.C.? What?
- Removed3 years ago
  It's to create something somewhat similair to the eclipse, I think I chose this scenario because OP had Lelouch in their favourites, which made me assume they agree with what he did and admire him for it.
  So to understand why people like Giriffith I asked OP to take one of their favourite characters and imagine they did what Griffith did.
  - Mangetsuki

VeritasAniki7 years ago1

Like? Are you kiddn me i hate him with the bottom of my hearth. But if you ask me why he's my no 1 villian of all time oh boi sit down story time.
.
.
.
or not.
idk why but i suddenly lost my inspiration to talk about this.

rcc4337 years ago1
I understand where your coming from lmao
I don't hate Griffith but neither do I like him :)

Removed7 years ago3

Griffith Did Nothing Wrong

RealityExtinct7 years ago1

It's a matter of perspective really...and others already said what I would have said anyway, so I will just add one single point.
This is a sort of Yagami Light vs L argument, where people who like Light (myself included) as opposed to L will simply tell you he is an amazing character and we like the twisted nature to his logic. Same with Griffith -- he is so endlessly twisted in his righteousness and obsessiveness to reach his goal and stopping at nothing it's simply entertaining to watch him (that made me sound like a true asshole considering what Griffith did but ugh XD).
You will find that many Griffith fans are not actually trying to justify him, they are just explaining what happened and trying to analyze his character for those who can't comprehend how he reached that point; in fact his fans can disagree with his logic and view his actions as horrific, much like Light fans don't necessarily think killing anyone is good. It all comes down to finding a character interesting and that's where it stays really, haha.XD
Honestly, Griffith is a piece of shit, but without him we wouldn't have Berserk.

rcc4337 years ago1
Agreed, I myself am a Light supporter but I don't think everything he did was righteous. His logic seemed very relatable and reasonable at first but with great power comes great responsibility. He became quite corrupt and his logic became flawed, but I couldn't help but feel bad for him in the end. With that said, Light vs L was easier to relate to because we got inside information on how Light rationalizes his actions to fit his ideals. Griffith on the other hand is much more enigmatic because he is not the protagonist of Berserk and we rarely know what he is thinking. Would have been interesting to get another view on the Berserk story, but with Griffith as the protagonist so that we may get insight on Griffith's thought processes.
##I wanted to at least try to view Griffith from a different perspective, but none of my friends irl have read Berserk so I didn't have anyone to discuss it with so I thought, why not try to ask people on AL and so I did. People gave great answers which made me understand that though they might not justify his actions they are intrigued by him.
#NearCheated xD

Removed7 years ago1

Griffith and Femto are different beings. Griffith already said that nothing would stop him from achieving his dream and sacrificing the band of the hawks doesn't seem something that he wouldn't do

rcc4337 years ago
I agree to some extent, maybe not 100% tho, because there are moments when Griffith seems very human but at the same time I feel like he would sacrifice anything when presented with the guarantee of something better. Probably leaning more towards his human side atm (at least when we are talking about the pre eclipse/pre Femto Griffith) because it can be argued that the god hand had to manipulate Griffith in order for him to agree in the end. I'm not sure how significant of a part they played tho. That is debatable. Still I believe that Griffith was comparable to what we would call a psychopath(or maybe a Sociopath). Maybe not a true psychopath but at least comparable. He was emotionally imature and he constantly tried to suppress or evade unnecessary damage to both his own psyche and the band of the hawks as it would argueably lower the probability of him achieving his dream. But as most people stated above everything can be argued both in favour of his humanity and lack thereof.
- Removed7 years ago1
  Being someone like that means the he would do anything necessary to achieve his dream, but he wound't do anything whithout motive. I'm capable to kill and rape, but i can't be considered evil or be disliked just for that. It's also part of what makes us human. Also, how the god hand maniupulated Griffith to accept the deal? Casuality did, it was his destinity to become Femto and the world moved the way it could to put him in that position

VeritasAniki7 years ago

Okay i found a post i made years ago just to post it here. Here is why griffth is the best villian

This son of a bitch is so damn villian he is literally don’t care about anything to achieve his goal…like seriously man; not his men, not his attidute, not even his honor…or should i say virginity…?

But don’t let this fool you. He is the most skilled villian you can ever see and he deserve them. Sure he's talented but it's not like he never put any effort

His lidership ability is so intense he can achieve his own country…hell he can even build it. He has that confident that effect everything about him…

one second he is smile at you like a child
and one freaking second later he might look at you like he wish to murder you for whole damn lifetime

and despite all that he is not pure evil. He cares about humans. He cars about things we can realate to them. When he saw a child on battlefield. He feel sad.

But thats not stop him to sacrifice his whole friends/nakama. C'mon, you can be sad on objectively bad things but does it stop you from hurting another human being? We're literally meme people's pains.

He is even badass enough to ride Zodd while make him carry a princess bed

and that’s my best villian for you

Removed6 years ago

Because he is a chad.

AliMAN6 years ago

Griffith is an A.H. :)
"the Ends Don’t Justify the Means"

ASteamyBun4 years ago

think every single comment here is wrong about something to be honest. Guts betrayed Griffith and no one can deny that. It all started when Guts broke from Griffith’s control and that alone is personality warping. Whilst Griffith was working through the politics and not sharpening his blade Guts got so much stronger. Being missing from action led his blade to dull, so when he lost that duel, if he had not worked in politics this entire time the Griffith we loved would be still with us.

Honestly, Guts did no wrong as he simply decided to leave to become Griffith’s equal but that wasn’t right. Just like how everyone is arguing that there could’ve been another way for Griffith the same goes for Guts. This was the downfall, Gut’s desire to be seen as his equal, and at the time that was soon to be the fatal mistake.

Griffith as we knew him whilst we adored him died once Gut touched his shoulder. From then on, with the humiliation and having to accept that his only dream in life could never be accomplished due to being incapacitated he accepted the higher power. If Gut’s was presented a position in the God hand and with the right direction he would’ve accepted. To conclude, we do not hate Griffith which means we hate Femto; to elaborate Femto is the greatest evil of Griffith which leaves the rest of Griffith dead. Please correct yourselves guys as we do not hate the magnificent narcissist and dreamer known as Griffith but the evil and terror we came to be affected by known as Femto.

ModChan4 years ago

The thread "What are some of your thoughts on griffith?" and it's comments have been merged into this thread.

You can view the merged thread's body below:

G0ldenRati04 years ago
I just recently picked Berserk back up and as a recap I just finished off the berserk 1997 anime and as im watching it even though I know he griffith does some messed up stuff is it wrong to like him?

chroniko5 years ago2

haven't read or watched it yet but he's pretty as fuck

G0ldenRati05 years ago1
You should check it out it’s really good
- chroniko5 years ago1
  i plan to! it looks great, im probably gonna read the manga as opposed to watching the anime. usually i wouldn't want to read/watch something that's still releasing but apparently berserk has a slow ass release schedule so ill probably pick it up soon anyway

HaremRoute5 years ago

No, definitely not wrong. I think he was, up to a certain point, completely in the right.
\#GriffithDidNothingWrong, while not a 100% true, is something I definitely support.

G0ldenRati05 years ago1
Although I like him and understand why he did what he did I’m not sure I can agree with the “Griffith did nothing wrong” argument
- HaremRoute5 years ago
  I mean, in a literal sense, he did, obviously, do quite a few things wrong. Bit I still find him more sympathetic than not. Heck, more sympathetic than Guts. I don't know if you'll get much out of it, but I personally love this video on the subject:
  Watch on YouTube
  - G0ldenRati05 years ago
    I’ll be sure to check that out once I catch up to the later chapters of Berserk

Chan5 years ago2

Nothing wrong with liking a well-written character. I like him as well.

Removed5 years ago1

I think you're supposed to like Griffith. That's why Berserk is so good, cause you understand both sides.

zetzazu5 years ago1

I think he's similar to Erwin, only devotion is their dreams, both are not afraid to sacrifice their comrades in order to achieve their goal(s). I personally don't value that but it's not wrong to like a goal-driven character. he was charismatic, a great leader and a well-rounded person; I like and admire that. He wasn't selfish either: kid that died perhaps changed him to selling his body for a night to pay for the band of hawk or saving Guts, and saying something like doing something for the people that've died for him for Griffith to pursue his own dream. However, when he raped casca, maybe the 4 god (forgot what their name is) hypnotized him and did whatever, or it was just Griffith himself. But it was not for me at all. I hate that scene

chewi5 years ago1

Amazing character. You can completely understand his motivations and why he does what he does. One of my favorite characters and one of the most well written villains in all of media imo. and yet I still cant help but hate him.

DelphineTheFairy4 years ago

I absolutely hate him since the last episode. I understood his ambitions and he is a well written character, he is interesting but Jesus Christ... He is fucked up in the head. He deserves no respect.

Killing his comrades, betraying them, was already messed up but I get it... Raping Caska, even worse in front of Guts, was the one moment I absolutely started hating this character in an instant. I couldn't believe my eyes seeing that.

This should be enough reason to dislike the character. Also

I don't even understand why he felt the need to rape Caska in front of Guts. Only reasoning I can think of is that Guts left the group and Griffith blames him for being tortured because if they had never fought, his sword would still be with him to defend and he probably wouldn't have made the decision to enter the princess's chamber. But... he's literally fucking mental to blame his own decisions on Guts.

He is a man who is nothing but vile and evil, jealous and breaks down when he doesn't get his candy.

ModChan4 years ago

The thread "why is the phrase "griffith did nothing wrong" a thing?" and it's comments have been merged into this thread.

You can view the merged thread's body below:

Removed4 years ago
bearing in mind I've only just finished golden age, is there anyway someone can explain to me how tf it makes any sense to say that?
from what I've seen the statement is fundementally incorrect, unless you have your morals positioned to the south.
I'm not saying that you can't like the geezer but to say he did nothing wrong is genuinely confusing to me, can someone explain?

rcc4337 years ago1

Firstly thanks for your input on this polarizing matter! I read through your reply and after sleeping on it I reached this conclusion. Your reply was very nice and elaborate btw it gave me insight on how one might think of Griffith other than how I had initially thought about him.

I find it hard to compare the service of "the band of the hawks" with what transpired in the eclipse. The logic is incomrehensible to me because the people had their own dreams and ambitions, even though those dreams almost always ranked lower in priority than the ambitions of Griffith but they were still very much there. Most of them even tried to merge their dreams to a point where they would call them synonymous with Griffith's. They adapted to him because they clinged to him in the same way that Griffith clinged to his own ambitions and dreams. In a way they entrusted their lives, dreams and ambitions in the hands of Griffith. To fight for Griffith and to die in a battle is hardly the same as being massacred.

You could say that in a way "the eclipse was not part of the contract."

The care that Griffith displays throughout the story is in a way very paradoxical in nature. Griffith cares by not caring. He distances himself from the band of the hawks and empathy applies to him only when empathy is needed for his dream. Does he stop bloodshed because he truly cares? or does he do it to stop himself from being burdened with guilt? Does he minimize death because it would impede his greater goal? or does he do it because he cares for his so called loyal servants?

Griffith to me is comparable to those who would be called psychopaths. He fails to understand empathy unless the matter involves pain to himself. He stops at nothing to achieve his goal, no matter the sacrifice as long as the net result is profitable then it is all good.

Though I can to an extent understand some of the reasons behind his actions I can not sympathize with him. If actions are what define a person then no matter the reasoning behind them Griffith would by definition be evil, but Griffith is not fundamentally evil, but neither is he good. The human concepts of evil and good are imprinted on us by society, but why don't they apply to Griffith? is it because he has transcended humanity?
If our own definition of good and evil are our only point of reference and this doesn't apply to something, then what do we compare it to?

Where is Guts part in all of this and where was his wrongdoing?
When I think of it from Guts point of view it further exemplifies why I can't bring mysef to sympathize with Griffith. What did Guts do that would invoke such anger to an extent which he feelt the need for revenge. Guts only wanted to be Griffith's friend in a way but couldn't become his friend unless he left him. If simply going against Griffith's wishes is what defines right and wrong then Griffith was already a god.
Guts is in a way "the exception that proves the rule."

Removed7 years ago2
A lot of what you think about Griffith and his feelings towards people will come down to the way you interpret this scene
Watch on YouTube
I think there's an obvious left brain-right brain struggle going on here, justifying things to yourself you can't logically explain, trying to deny your feelings because they're contradicting with your calculating side.
And the willing sacrifice argument makes a lot more sense when you look at what had happened to the Band of the Hawk since Griffith's capture, they could have disbanded, and some did leave, those that stayed were (arguably) willing to do anything to get Griffith back, many of them died in the ambush after Griffith's capture, even more died during their (2?) year long phase of hiding and running, only those truly commited were left, only the ones most willing to give Griffith their all.
- FinnFae7 years ago3
  I have always interpreted this scene as Griffith being aware of himself becoming a "heartless monster". All due to the pain he has suffered through losing his men who only fought for his dream. The guilt must have become unbearable enough for him to create this "facade" of indifference so that he wouldn't develop a weakness. At some point, I think he truly starts to feel indifferent about his foot soldiers, but he still shares some interactions with the most notable members. The most skilled ones. Ones most unlikely to fall in battle.
  I think Griffith's intrigue for Guts was awakened when he saw his skill, strength and luck (innate ability to fight against fate?) while facing of Bazuzo. He had finally found his perfect right-hand man. That kind of insurance enabled him to develop the sort of feelings he was afraid of, like you stated, he lives in the contradiction of being the indifferent leader and being the heartfelt companion to his band. Guts was truly special and irreplaceable. Many believe that Griffith did not see Guts as a friend because of his conversation with the princess. But I think it was a piece of his remaining worries of accepting people of coming too near to him when they were so close to dying off in the next battle.

Removed3 years ago

it's not a perfect analogy, and it's not intended as such,

conceptually it provides a set-up for exploring the reaction people might have to it for someone who never admired or liked Griffith but does like Lelouch, from there one can start exploring differences you mentioned, but at least there is an understanding of how one side reacted emotionally.

(I wanted to preserve Lelouch's ideals, as Griffith's ideals are also preserved through his transformation, so as to not create an easy point of disconnect from his early self and later self)

Removed3 years ago

also, Griffith was absolutely lashing out

Removed3 years ago

I watched/read Berserk for the first time when I was 14-15 (over 10 years ago) and was a Griffith apologist as a kid, I know it isn't purely about the actual facts of the matter, it's about the emotional interpretation of what happened, which can be very far from the truth.

I'm not trying to express why Griffith SHOULD be liked, I'm trying to express why people DO, which does not require me to be factually accurate or analogously perfect.

Removed3 years ago

It's not arguing why people like Griffith in the first place, it's more-so to show how hard it is to stop idolizing someone, and make something you never expected out of someone a part of the identity you've internalized about them.

RealityExtinct7 years ago

Honestly, yes, it would be great if Berserk was from Griffith perspective, then again, it's amazing the way it is because there is so much to analyze and so many mysteries to discover it's just outstanding. And maybe Griffith would have lost some of that enigma of his if it was from his perspective, haha.XD But yeah, I understand the need to talk about Berserk with someone -- it requires an outlet.XD

rcc4337 years ago

I'm not claiming that Griffith is Evil, but that doesn't mean that he is good. If everything comes down to the existence of a deterministic universe, then there need not be a motive for action. The point is that everything was predetermined and that nothing can escape causality. Literally every choice made in the whole universe becomes insignificant because "it was the will of the universe". The freedom of choice becomes an illusion and with it no motive is needed because the action itself creates a motive for its occurence. That is why Imo the argument of justification through eleviation of blame is flawed. On the other hand one could argue that, if we presume that actions are what defines an individual then he who rapes and kills would according to human morality be by definition evil. The intent does not always reflect in the action, and so we judge people based on their actions. To put it in perspective, simply being capable of a crime is not a crime, the action is only a crime once it has been comitted.

This is not truly what I believe when it comes to Griffith, I actually believe that he had motives behind his actions. This is also the most interesting part of Griffith, I'm not trying to take away the blame from him though, rather I believe that he is to blame for most of his actions(some were maybe out of his controle). Because of his enigmatic nature, people can speculate and discuss what his motives were, why he did something in a certain way, or even how he rationalizes all his actions. This is one of many aspects which makes Berserk such an excellent piece.

FinnFae7 years ago1

Band of the Falcon fighting all the battles Griffith commanded was the contract. However, when Eclipse, Godhand and the Behelit are concerned, all bets are off. Griffith must have thought many things over in that torture chamber, all the while going through immeasurable pain, which is pound to evoke some hideous feelings from inside him. Seeing the companion who abandoned him being happy with his most loyal follower must have triggered an avalanche of hatred Griffith couldn't handle himself.

Still he showed himself being self-conscious about the depths of uncontrollable hatred by praying to himself that Guts wouldn't touch his hand before the eclipse, as he knew he was in a state he wouldn't come back from. During that battered state, he was still not ready to make the sacrifice. He had to be reminded of all the bloodshed he had caused by the Godhand. He was still doubting and he was shown images of living a "happy" indifferent life somewhere with Caska. That's some really heinous disrespect to everything he stands for.

Only after this "manipulation" by the Godhand, he decided to make an amends to all his fallen soldiers. It's not about right or wrong anymore, it's about chaos and contradiction. He is only able to sacrifice his Band because he cares for them, but only to become a complete corrupt version of himself, drawn from the suffering of the people he most cared about, which enables Femto to do the most atrocious things imaginable.

I honestly don't think Griffiths decisions during the Eclipse are about "true right and wrong" or about "being above morality". It was a set-up from the start. Without Griffith even knowing. The suffering he had gone through before it might have been fate all along or just the icing on the cake.

rcc4337 years ago1
I definitely agree that Griffith was affected by the manipulation of the god hand. But if sacrifice means to give up something dear to you and on the other hand you lose the emotion to feel attached to something, then the sacrifice is no longer a sacrifice it won't be any different from throwing trash in the trashcan. He basically sold his soul to the devil. While I can understand the reasoing behind his actions I fail to see them as justifiable. The intent does not always reflect in the action, but we define people based on their actions.
Still my biggest gripe with Griffith are maybe not his actions, rather his reaction when faced with adversity which he might not be able to overcome. (Guts leaves the band of the hawks and Griffith being unable to stop him) How does he react? Being emotionally immature conflicting emotions arise within him, emotions which he might have never feelt before. Being unable to deal with them, a lapse in his judgement causes him to do the unthinkable to the princess and he then pays the price for it. The error by Griffith then goes on to affect the remaining members of the band of the hawks.
But maybe your right, maybe they live in a deterministic universe. It would mean that no one is responsible for their actions because causality or fate decides everything.
Anyways this has been very educational for me atleast, because I've never actually chatted with anyone who liked Griffith even though I had noticed that there are many who like him.
This is what make Griffith undeniably such a well-written character in the sense that he sparks such controversy whenever he is mentioned.
@Snufkin @MalevolentFae
#Btw cheers from Sweden neighbour!

Why do people like Griffith? (Berserk) / Thoughts on Griffith

Replies

#NearCheated xD